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Trading for a Living, Deriving an Income from Fulltime Trading
mrbear
post Posted: Aug 19 2013, 04:40 PM
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In Reply To: wolverine's post @ Aug 18 2013, 03:02 PM

No wolver you will have to line up behind me for the dumbest,bought some fwd and hills last week,only a few to test if they are worth investing in and unless I am wrong one was up but the other down today and the one is down more than the other up,dumb,i will have to have an extra rum tonight,cheers mrbear

 
wolverine
post Posted: Aug 18 2013, 03:02 PM
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In Reply To: Mork's post @ Aug 18 2013, 11:57 AM

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For those who haven't read the market wizard books, one the recurring themes is that its very important to match your trading/investment method to your personality. It suggest that is one of the key factors to determining trading success. There are a few other key factors but the method style you employ isn't one of them.


I couldn't agree more.



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Mork
post Posted: Aug 18 2013, 11:57 AM
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In Reply To: wolverine's post @ Aug 17 2013, 07:41 PM

I saw Padley's comments last night and my first thought was i doubt he's actually read the market wizard books.

To quote one of the books - "The methologies employed cover purely technical to purely fundamental and everything in bewteen. The length of time they hold a trade ranges from minutes to years"

The highest returns with the least volatility actually tended to be more short term in nature. This makes sense because if your a super trader with a method that has a good risk reward payoff - the more trades you make the more you cancel out the volatility in returns.

Am i defending short term trading? No

I actually prefer to make my money trying to find 10, 20, 50+ baggers in small caps based on fundamentals.

I've taught myself shorter term technical trading (days to weeks) to (1) better improve my timing, and (2) more consistantly make money - to find good small caps with really good risk reward payoffs is not always easy to find based solely on fundamentals - often any upside potential is matched with a fairly high degree of risk. Most of the time small caps have pretty ordinary fundamentals at best.

For those who haven't read the market wizard books, one the recurring themes is that its very important to match your trading/investment method to your personality. It suggest that is one of the key factors to determining trading success. There are a few other key factors but the method style you employ isn't one of them.

btw - hats of to those pure tech traders, from someone who is basically a "funnymentalist" You've got to be impressed sometimes with there market judgement and timing.

cheers


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wolverine
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 07:41 PM
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In Reply To: mrbear's post @ Aug 17 2013, 05:50 PM

I have this part completely covered.

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Know that you are probably the dumbest trader out there and trade that way.


The next one......maybe not.

QUOTE
very carefully




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flower
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 07:16 PM
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In Reply To: mistagear's post @ Aug 17 2013, 01:53 PM

QUOTE
I cant see a problem with doing both short term trading as well as long term.. Unless of course a person does not possess the necessary skill-set, then using "time" to hopefully correct mistakes in "Timing" the markets, is probably the only option.


Agreed---to survive and prosper one needs to cut out "the noise", have a plan and stick to it which may be overnight unrewarding, but pay off handsomely in the longer term, each to his own--- as this site so ably demonstrates.



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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
mrbear
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 05:50 PM
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In Reply To: wren's post @ Aug 17 2013, 04:42 PM

Easy,make money,don't lose it.

Invest more money in a bull market and less in a bear market.

Trade as little as possible ,let the profit grow and cut the loss quick.

Know that you are probably the dumbest trader out there and trade that way,very carefully.

Try not to spend too much on books,though a basic knowledge is handy.

Do NOT attend trading seminars unless no charge is involved ,as in the first meeting and eat and drink all the free goodies but remember these clowns are just shonks as anyone I know that makes a good living from the market does not need to tell other people how to do it.

There you are the simple recipe for success and remember when your broker is giving you advice tell yourself why is he bothering with talking to you when he could be at home retired and just trading if he is that good.

I always listen to people that have made heaps of money in the market and are not trying to sell you anything,best advice around I have found,cheers mrbear


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wren
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 04:42 PM
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Missed this thread..was elsewhere when it started.Not going to comment on Marcus ,except that I disagree.There are plenty of short time frame players who are very successful.Marcus is a middle size fish in a very small pond.He writes good stuff,but like everyone he has his own biases.
Now.....One factor which rarely gets the attention it deserves is the following:time in the market and risk.The hold and pray crowd ignore the fact that longer it takes to make 20%(or whatever) from a stock the greater the risk.Every day one holds a stock there is a risk that something will go amiss....anything from unexpected fundamental news to bombs going off somewhere that matters.Making 10% in a week is way better than making 10% in a year even if that is the only trade for the year as you have only been exposed to market risk for a week while the other guy has been exposed for a year.Realise that this is pretty obvious stuff but it is surprising how few investors give it consideration.

 
mistagear
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 01:53 PM
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In Reply To: flower's post @ Aug 17 2013, 11:10 AM

Flower,

Hmmm, Seems it's taking a while
QUOTE
Plan to succeed in the end. Not tomorrow.


I cant see a problem with doing both short term trading as well as long term.. Unless of course a person does not possess the necessary skill-set, then using "time" to hopefully correct mistakes in "Timing" the markets, is probably the only option.



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[url="http://xgamesbowling.com"]X Games Bowling[/url]
Bear Cottage is the first children's hospice in NSW.

It is a place where children with terminal illnesses and their families can stay from time to time and receive rest and medical care in a home-like environment.

Please support >>> Bear Cottage for Kids,
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http://www.bearcottage.chw.edu.au/

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flower
post Posted: Aug 17 2013, 11:10 AM
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Last paragraph of Marcus Padley in his weekend missive dated August 17/18. Subject: Super Stupid Way To Lose A Fortune.

"""If you read books such as Market Wizards that give accounts of professional traders, you will find they all start out trading by the second, the minute, the hour. But after years of experience all traders work out that the only time frames that reliably pay off are over weeks, months and years.

Plan to succeed in the end. Not tomorrow.

More stupidity next week.""""



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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
mistagear
post Posted: Jun 2 2013, 10:57 PM
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Title of this thread is
Trading for a Living
Deriving an Income from Fulltime Trading.

IMHO, Unless you have a VERY large account at your disposal, it would be nearly impossible to derive sufficient income from trading on only fundamental principles to be considered suitable income. Technical's, whilst less difficult, would also be unlikely unless combined with a solid Money Management Strategy.

As far as I can tell, Fundamental Analysis is a method where the exponent forms an opinion on value of a particular Company, whether right or wrong, then takes a position based on that opinion. Unfortunately that position will only be profitable when the market for that share, rises beyond the perceived value set by the Fundamentalist. Even if the Fundamentalists were able to arrive at a correct value of the Company, the market for those particular shares can vary wildly and remain substantially lower for years.
If value was a suitable method to gauge where price of the share will be, it would require share price to remain unchanged for long periods, clearly this does not happen, proving that buying for value is not an efficient way to trade. Value trading is only suitable over very long periods of Investing and should not be confused with Trading. It usually requires the exponent to increase their risk when forced to buy increasing numbers of shares because the method is so inefficient in predicting where a price bottom will be.
My observations of the Fundamental Investor's on Sharescene, suggests they largely ignore losses in their account value while waiting for the market to rise beyond their point of entry. This seriously erodes overall profitability and generally prevents taking advantage of other opportunities to profit, in the mean time.

Technical trading relies on following the market price for a particular share and should be immeasurably better because it is meant to observe what price is doing and act accordingly. It's easy to expect a system which attempts to take advantage of price movements, whilst ignoring minority influences such as perceived value, should ultimately be more profitable than the Fundamental method, except that most Tech Traders here start to believe that the line or level or indicator they have placed on their chart, is being seen and believed by the majority of interested parties trading that share and therefore will prove them correct.

I believe the most suitable method for making profitable income is by being a Trader who can accept the fact they will be wrong many times, being a price follower and employing a strong Money Management Strategy to minimize risk when they are wrong and protect profits in times where they are right.



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[url="http://xgamesbowling.com"]X Games Bowling[/url]
Bear Cottage is the first children's hospice in NSW.

It is a place where children with terminal illnesses and their families can stay from time to time and receive rest and medical care in a home-like environment.

Please support >>> Bear Cottage for Kids,
An initiative of the Children's Hospital at Westmead NSW
http://www.bearcottage.chw.edu.au/

................................................................
www.xgamesbowling.com

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