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CSG Discussion
triage
post Posted: Aug 14 2013, 07:40 AM
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Now the god botherers think they see an opportunity to get all righteous and moral about fracking: talk about jumping on the bandwagon.

QUOTE
The Church of England has told parishioners that fracking causes environmental problems and risks lasting harm to "God's glorious creation". The warning has been issued to Anglicans in Lancashire, where significant work to extract gas and oil by fracking has been proposed.

The Diocese of Blackburn has published a leaflet for its flock, telling them that for Christians, fracking presents "a choice between economic gain and a healthy environment."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/1...s-creation.html

It seems everyone's an instant expert when it comes to science, and one person's ignorance is on par with another's expertise.

QUOTE
It says: "The time we spend thinking, praying and acting now to protect our drinking water, and the rest of God's glorious Creation cannot compare with the time succeeding generations could potentially spend trying to make good what will likely happen if we in the church remain uninformed and silent."

Fracking is untested and potentially harmful, the leaflet says: "A relatively new technique to extract natural gas from previously unreachable depths is prompting a rush to drill, despite virtually no history as to its environmental impact."


The depth at which the gas can be found has nothing to do with whether or not fracking of the rock is required. What they are doing off the coast of Brazil at incredible depths is not reliant on fracking and sometimes there is a need to frack coal seam gas seams that are only a couple of hundred metres underground.

And I can't recall the Anglicans getting too concerned about the environmental impacts of cars, or the fact that cars kill so many young people. Debate about the downside risks and upside benefits of fracking is a good thing but not when they resort to such emotive language as "God's glorious Creation" to push home their assumed moral superiority (imo).

According to my google map Lancashire and the Diocese of Blackburn covers the area where Cuadrilla has its most developed blocks but is away from where Dart has its licences.



--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
flower
post Posted: Aug 13 2013, 01:53 PM
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In Reply To: frodo's post @ Aug 3 2013, 10:21 AM

QUOTE
I saw on TV last night must have been BBC that drilling had commenced at West Sussex UK they did show it on tv there were some protestors there but it didn't look like more than 40 or so but its going ahead regardless. So worth a follow.


Frodo, just returned (via London Gatwick airport) from that very controversy. As far as I could ascertain those that I spoke to about the whole subject of shale oil couldn't give a stuff about how it will be produced, as long as produced it is.

Dont forget the North Sea bonanza is over.

Basically the actual cost of unleaded petrol is about $A1.60 here, GBP1.75 in the UK but in $A terms the UK fuel prices are massive in compared with ours, so one can appreciate that the UK citizens don't really care about rent a crowd, all they care about is keeping warm in their diabolical winters.

We need to stop giving in the lefties and realise how damned lucky we are.



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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
triage
post Posted: Aug 13 2013, 11:39 AM
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Another metric showing that NSW has so far missed the wave of economic benefit that csg offers:
QUOTE
Only 285 land access agreements have been signed in NSW, compared with 4,000 in Queensland.

The agreements allow companies to conduct coal seam gas (CSG) activity on private land.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-13/more...s-deals/4883066







--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
triage
post Posted: Aug 10 2013, 08:08 AM
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As they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease or as in this context the noisiest lobby group gets the bureaucratic delays.

Despite the clear and repeated statements from the very top of the UK government that it will ensure that the rapid development of that country's shale gas assets be unhindered by bureaucratic procrastinations and activist delaying tactics it now appears that at least government agency has other ideas. The UK Treasury has indicated that the approval process for fracking is to be reduced from some months down to a couple of weeks but the Environmental Agency has other ideas.
QUOTE
In June, the Treasury pledged the government would take a series of measures “designed to kick start the shale gas industry in the UK” including plans for the EA to “significantly reduce the time it takes to obtain environmental permits for exploration”.

It said the EA would ensure shale gas permits – which currently take a varying length of time – would be issued within a “standard 13 week period” by September and then “within 1-2 weeks” by February.

But in a consultation document, the EA has now said that current public attention on the process means the regulator is “likely” to “treat such sites as being of high public interest”.

The standard timescale would therefore not apply and could require lengthier consultation or a second round of consultation. “Where there is a lot of public interest, determining a permit may take four to six months” or potentially even longer, it said.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...ting-delay.html

Talk about bureaucrats expanding their empires: first we have the NSW chief scientist saying she will need to take a number of extra months to look at legal issues relating to csg companies gaining access to coal deposits (maybe she needs time to finish that undergraduate law degree that she does not currently have (????)) and now we have the UK environmental agency determining the length of an approval process not on the environmental issues raised but on how controversial the objectors can make it. I suspect that unlike our very own Fat Barry's willingness to hide behind the skirts of his public servants David Cameron will insist that he handles the political processes triggered by the fracking debate and have his environmental regulators stick to what they are actually tasked to do. After all David Cameron has some ambitions to be someone who can make a difference whilst dear old Barry appears to be in it mainly for the pension plan.





--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
frodo
post Posted: Aug 3 2013, 10:21 AM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Aug 3 2013, 08:31 AM

I saw on TV last night must have been BBC that drilling had commenced at West Sussex UK they did show it on tv there were some protestors there but it didn't look like more than 40 or so but its going ahead regardless. So worth a follow.

 
balance
post Posted: Aug 3 2013, 10:17 AM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Aug 3 2013, 08:31 AM

It's Fatty O'Barrel by the way. He's lost a lot of weight but the name stuck. I think this current NSW govt will be remembered for doing very little and elected only because the incumbents were 8 years past their use by date and marked by corruption.Their csg stance is bewildering.



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triage
post Posted: Aug 3 2013, 08:31 AM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Jul 31 2013, 11:32 AM

Just to highlight how far the leaders of public opinion in NSW are out there in la-la land, in my opinion, have a gander at this graphic prepared by one part of the management consulting firm, McKinsey & Co. (McKinsey Global Institute's "mission is to help leaders in the commercial, public, and social sectors develop a deeper understanding of the evolution of the global economy and to provide a fact base that contributes to decision making on critical management and policy issues"). The chart lists five possible drivers for US GDP growth leading up to 2020.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/08/game-changers-2020gdp/

They suspect the largest effect on the US economy growing in the next 7 years or so is not trade, nor improvements in infrastructure (which apparently they have let slip for some decades now), not even talent (the developing and importing of the best talent in the world is what the US has based its growth and wealth on for over a century now). No, the biggest bang for their bucks the Americans have available to them, McKinsey Global Institute suggest, is what is happening in their energy sector: the development of their unconventional oil and gas resources. What is happening with shale gas and oil is considered by them to be significant enough to propel 25% of the world's economy, which is what the US economy is, along at a decent clip.

Fat Barry and the NSW Chief Scientist and all the chattering huddles that dominate the public debate in NSW simply do not get it imo. NSW is sitting atop a resource that could power it forward for decades, at least until we finally arrive in the post-carbon era, and yet their focus is on everything but that raw fact. To me the debate in NSW has been broken down to such a sophistic level it is now akin to there being a broad push to totally ban motor vehicles on the basis that cars are the biggest killers of young people. I fully support all the measures being taken to reduce the road toll, and would be happy for more regulation be used to lower the toll even more, but to me there is no doubt that our lives are better and our economy and wealth benefit from how we use motor vehicles right now. The same with coal seam gas, of course there is a need for appropriate levels of regulation, monitoring and compliance, but that should not mean that the NSW economy should be allowed to fall into a hole whilst they come up with the perfect system (which they will never manage to get in any case).



--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
triage
post Posted: Jul 31 2013, 11:32 AM
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In Reply To: henrietta's post @ Jul 31 2013, 08:46 AM

J

Well the NSW Chief Scientist is clearly an intelligent fool and way out of her zone of knowledge.

The csg industry in Queensland was built on the backs of small operators like QGC and Arrow trying novel approaches and having a crack when all the mainstream players were either playing safe or ridiculing its potential: I remember well the loud-mouthed yanky boss of Woodside deriding csg as being "girlie gas" that the north Asians would not be bothered with. If it had not been for the likes of QGC and Arrow then I suggest Qld would be in as big a hole as NSW currently is (which by the way she is also blithely ignorant of as well: how unrealistic is it that she suggests that the industry can wait around until some time next year for her to produce a final report, for the government then to introduce regulations, and then expect the industry to gear up csg production sufficiently to meet the supply crunch that will begin to grip NSW by late 2015).

She may be well skilled at looking down a microscope or applying some complex formulae but she obviously knows nothing about how in business often the largest of oak trees start out as the smallest of accorns. CSG is perfectly suited to having small players mingling with the major operators as the drilling of wells tend to be much shallower and far less expensive than for say shale gas or offshore gas.

Sorry but this is a perfect case of someone's relative ignorance being afforded the same gravity as another person's knowledge. Extraction of csg has been going on for decades and its strengths and weaknesses and risks are well known to those with expertise and experience in the sector. That the NSW Chief Scientist seems to think she has the luxury of re-inventing that particular wheel at her own pace is an indictment on her professionalism and the NSW government's management prowess (imo).



--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
henrietta
post Posted: Jul 31 2013, 08:46 AM
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In Reply To: triage's post @ Jul 30 2013, 10:34 PM

Here's a link to today's report.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-a...x-1226688415288
I note that she says that only large companies with considerable resources should be involved.
Not an impressive report, but has a few LTG'ers cheering.
Cheers
J




Said 'Thanks' for this post: triage  
 
triage
post Posted: Jul 30 2013, 10:34 PM
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Well the NSW Chief Scientist has put out an initial (????) report on her investigation of the practices and issues regarding coal seam gas extraction ... and I have to ask who the bloody hell wrote her terms of reference???? (It's a rhetorical question, I know who oversaw the penning of them, an idiot by the name of Fat Barry [and to think that his lot are presumed to be better at governing than the socialists wacko.gif ]).

QUOTE
She said her review would continue well into next year, with further work on landholders' legal rights, insurance, and analysing in depth the methods for CSG risk and assessment.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-...4-1226688135561

Why would you, the government, be tasking your chief scientist with working through matters such as landholder's legal rights, and insurance, and why has she apparently been given an open-ended timeframe to complete her investigations???

Here is a link to the full report (I can't read it due to connection problems weirdsmiley.gif ):

http://www.chiefscientist.nsw.gov.au/__dat...July-report.pdf

But from what I can work out the current NSW government has totally ballsed up the handling of this issue. Realistically it will be months if not years before Fat Barry can extricate himself from this quagmire of his own making. It will I suspect take decisive action from Canberra - whether that be from the Krudd or the Monk - to introduce some sense of reality into the process.

Meanwhile both suppliers and industrial users of gas realise what a shemozzle is developing due to lack of government leadership. The suppliers have begun a campaign to highlight how restrictive government policies are tightening the spigots of gas supplies and the manufacturers are starting to scream about the high prices and failing supplies of gas they are already beginning to face.

http://www.manmonthly.com.au/news/gas-for-...t-coast-exports

This has all the makings of an economic catastrophe coming NSW's way in the next year or two. Which will be of little consolation to gas companies like Dart and Metgasco (and AGL and Santos etc) and their shareholders.



--------------------
"The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." John Maynard Keynes

"The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought." Rudiger Dornbush

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle
 
 


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