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Should computer pragrammed trading be banned?
mullokintyre
post Posted: Oct 3 2014, 09:34 AM
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From Bloombergs
QUOTE
A high-frequency trader was indicted for “spoofing” -- placing and immediate canceling orders as a way to manipulate commodities markets -- in what the U.S. Justice Department says is the first criminal case of its kind.Michael Coscia, 52, of Rumson, New Jersey, the principal of Panther Energy Trading LLC, was indicted by a federal grand jury in Chicago and charged with six counts of commodities fraud and six of spoofing. He’s accused of illegally reaping almost $1.6 million as a result of orders placed through CME Group Inc. (CME) and European futures markets in 2011.

Coscia last year settled civil claims by the U.S Commodity Futures Trading Commission by paying a $2.8 million fine and consenting to a one-year trading ban.

The anti-spoofing statute is part of the 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. Some trading firms have found the definition too vague and pressed CME to be more specific, two people familiar with the matter said last month.

Mick





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arty
post Posted: Sep 6 2014, 11:56 PM
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All you need is a faster computer that can beat the ones of Goldman Sux & Co.
I've just been sent a description of this little beauty:
http://www.idgconnect.com/blog-abstract/87...rt-greater-plan

No wonder so many passwords are being cracked by sheer brute force - with a beast like that at China's disposal...



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I trade daily, but I am not a licensed adviser. Whether you find my ideas reasonable or not: The only person responsible for your actions is YOU.
I follow two rules: (1) There are no sacred truths. All assumptions must be critically examined. Arguments from authority are worthless. (2) Whatever is inconsistent with observed facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Market as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. (inspired by Carl Sagan)
 
flower
post Posted: Jun 27 2014, 11:56 PM
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The chickens are coming home to roost:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-27/m...ays-action.html

For years, brokers and traders have assured anyone who cast aspersions on America’s electronic stock market that the concerns don’t add up. Then came Eric Schneiderman.

New York’s attorney general has spent a year digging for dirt on two of the main features of modern market structure, dark pools and high-frequency trading. This week, he hit a vein with a 30-page complaint against Barclays Plc. (BARC)

Schneiderman’s suit against the British bank alleged Barclays executives lied to customers while secretly cozying up to high-frequency firms. In doing so, he emboldened those who contend the private venues are havens for bad actors taking advantage of mutual and pension funds. The action provided ammunition to those who say the stock market’s opaque structure mainly serves insiders.

etc etc etc.





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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
flower
post Posted: Dec 16 2013, 02:32 PM
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In Reply To: arty's post @ Dec 16 2013, 02:17 PM

QUOTE
How can you tell?
Which small stocks do you think it applies to?


Hi arty, not watching many stocks but certainly am watching those few I hold, CVN and SEH display no absurdly low numbers traded like 1, 3, 18 for example, if correctly observed it's refreshing to say the least, hopeful they all go down to the beach, get p...... out of their mind and blow their addled brains out biggrin.gif

NST an ideal example of the complete opposite thumbdown.gif








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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 
arty
post Posted: Dec 16 2013, 02:17 PM
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In Reply To: flower's post @ Dec 16 2013, 02:07 PM

no - not really.
How can you tell?
Which small stocks do you think it applies to?

What I do notice though: Volumes are generally down across the board. But that's not surprising, given the time of year.



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I trade daily, but I am not a licensed adviser. Whether you find my ideas reasonable or not: The only person responsible for your actions is YOU.
I follow two rules: (1) There are no sacred truths. All assumptions must be critically examined. Arguments from authority are worthless. (2) Whatever is inconsistent with observed facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Market as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. (inspired by Carl Sagan)
 
flower
post Posted: Dec 16 2013, 02:07 PM
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Anybody noticing a marked reduction in bot trading today?

Have the perpetrators shut up shop for a summer break---maybe at least the next 14 days may see some stability return rolleyes.gif





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Combining Fundamental comments with Fundamental charts.
 


mistagear
post Posted: Apr 25 2013, 01:57 PM
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"Yawn"
Topic is redundant.
Market would have to go back to Floor Trading Only and phone orders........ AS IF
Whilst ever DTM Platforms exist, Algo's here to stay



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NightStalker
post Posted: Apr 25 2013, 12:52 PM
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In Reply To: arty's post @ Apr 25 2013, 10:25 AM

Hi again Arty, and Mick smile.gif

Yes, I take your point, but when you talk about momentum, directional change, etc, that used to be seen as the summation of the behaviour of a lot of people, who collectively make up "the market". And it is their behaviour that is governed by sentiment. Iron ore price is up, so sentiment swings in favour of BHP, Rio, etc. That sort of thing. A resistance level is formed by the psychological barrier of a lot of people who perceive that level as a resistance. Once that breaks, and that level is seen as a support, it is because all those people consider that they are now safely above what was a psychological barrier. You get the idea.

Those are the classical teachings of people like Weinstein, Elder, and countless others - they regard the patterns as reflections of what PEOPLE think, feel, do...

My point is that the PEOPLE are now being taken more and more out of the equation by the computerized trading of all types. I think Mick "gets it" when he says that perhaps the bots etc will evolve their own sets of TA patterns that we - maybe - need to interpret differently over time.

And I didn't take your previous post as having a go at me - no apology needed wink.gif I am more than able to have a robust debate with somebody without taking it personally:)

And in the case of "not in my lifetime" - perhaps that's my role - to extend your lifetime? Being a surgeon and all.... wink.gif



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Regards, NightStalker

Algorithmic trading, and HFT are rendering Technical Analysis null and void.
 
arty
post Posted: Apr 25 2013, 10:25 AM
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In Reply To: NightStalker's post @ Apr 25 2013, 08:18 AM

Hi NS;

Yes: "What Mick said."

I didn't intend to have a go at you and apologise if my late-night reply came across as such.

Interesting that you interpret the technical details in the context of sentiment, fear and greed. I'm certainly aware of those emotions; however, when I see a directional change in price, volume, or momentum, I take it in its technical meaning, a rather abstract concept that is based on the algorithm it's derived by. (I have probably an unfair advantage of my own that I'm able to analyse the algorithms, even programmed my own variations. Therefore, I see parallels in the world of Physics rather than Psychology.)

You may recall that I frequently call for emotion-less trading. Could be that my mind works more like a 'bot in that regard, which makes it easier for me to tune into the new paradigm. But I still "get" your and others' sentiment about these matters and admit that it's damn hard to accept what is being forced upon us from vested interests. I'd be among the first to welcome a ban of HFT and dark pools, even a return to "the good old days" when traders pitted their wits against each other and nothing else.

Can't see it happen though. Not in my lifetime.



--------------------
I trade daily, but I am not a licensed adviser. Whether you find my ideas reasonable or not: The only person responsible for your actions is YOU.
I follow two rules: (1) There are no sacred truths. All assumptions must be critically examined. Arguments from authority are worthless. (2) Whatever is inconsistent with observed facts must be discarded or revised. We must understand the Market as it is and not confuse how it is with how we wish it to be. (inspired by Carl Sagan)
 
mullokintyre
post Posted: Apr 25 2013, 09:53 AM
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In Reply To: NightStalker's post @ Apr 25 2013, 08:18 AM

Morning Nightstalker Arty et al.
All may not be lost. Over time, even the HFT's, bots, dark pools etc will create their own history.
Even if the really smart bots are evolutionary in that they change and adapt their behavior to the market stimuli, they will still create trading patterns and create cycles. Maybe over time, we will see new indicators to replace the ones in which you have lost faith.
Although there are many people who decry HFT, dark pools trading, bots etc, its going to take a lot to get rid of it, there are just too many vested interests in this sort of trading. In fact the only way it will change is for another organisation to set up in competition to the ASX, and given their power, that looks unlikely to happen.


Mick.



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Said 'Thanks' for this post: arty  
 
 


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